Regeneration
May. 17th, 2006 02:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
carmen_ljSo, yes, regeneration, that is pretty much the reason that Doctor Who has managed to last this long. Lead actor bored? Ill? Dying? Wanting tons more cash stuff? Change him and have a shiny new renewal of series where you Get To Keep Your Main Character. Dude! So, yes, there was that risk each time and at the end it apparently went a bit wrong and people did not like the Shiny New Doctors, but since 1966, it has been one of the big sticks in the stick tower of Doctor Who, yes.
And when they came up with the (totally arbitary) twelve regenerations, and thus thirteen lives, I bet they never thought they'd actually get that far. And now it's, y'know, kind of almost there, they seem to be quietly forgetting that they ever said anything of the sort (so suggests the Beeb website). New series, in fact, implies that there is no limit to regeneration what with the "I don't die; I regenerate" thing and the "it's a way we have of chaeating death," without any sort of mention of "yeah, but only for so long, then Death gets pissed off and says ENOUGH YOU WEE CHEATERS" and drags them off to Hades, yes.
And, really, that thing on the Beeb site where it says with the Time Lords gone, who knows how many regnerations Time Lord shave does make sense in relation to Old Series continuity. There is no reason ever given as to why it is thirteen lives. No reason why regeneration will only work thirteen times. But there is a reason given as to why a limit would be imposed. "Immortality is a curse, not a blessing" is what Rassilon believes, and what with him being the Grand High Poobah of the Time Lords, he probably decided "right, you lot, you've got 13 goes and then that's it. Byeeeeeee!" And Rassilon himself is immortal, and he does grant a horrible, horrible sort of immortality to those who come and nick his jewellery. So, yeah, immortality totally possible. But they don't allow it.
Further evidence, yes, is Borusa's offer to the Master of "a complete new life-cycle" and the obvious continuity question that it raises of Why Does Borusa Bother With All That Death Zone Nonsense When He Could Just Give Himself A New Lifecycle. And, yes, maybe you could only have one (or other finite limit) new life-cycle/s (Borusa wanted to rule forever), maybe the Time Lords take this limit on their regenerations dead seriously (they are very keen on tradition) in which case, much easier for a renegade to get away with shiny new lives than it is for Lord President o the People, yes. Maybe they could reverse it somehow, the limit imposed by genetics, whereas the apparent gift that Rassilon offered overcame that. Anyway, tons of possible reasons. The points are Immortality Possible and Number of Regenerations Time Lords Have Is Imposed By Society.
So why? What's wrong with immortality? Again, canon gives A Reason, in The Brain of Morbius. Which, here, there's a whole planet of immortal people (coincedently, this planet is in the same solar system as Gallifrey. Also lalala, NA's I can't hear you, LA) and the Doctor, not exactly thrilled with what he finds there. Nothing has changed. Nothing ever changes. They are trapped by their immortality. Now, the Time Lords, not exactly rocketing forth with the shiny newness of things, but, heh, they do have the odd renegade who does Interesting Things and their civilisation does seem to be in a sort of terminal decline, yes. And, there's that whole war thing. Things do change for the Time Lords, just rather slowly, and it is better than the Trapped In Amber Immortality of the Sisterhood of Karn, yes.
So, yes, perhaps the same thing that saved the Doctor from death has killed the thing that imposes that arbitary limit of regenerations. (And, dude, it's totally arbitary - it was made-up for The Deadly Assassin to explain why the Master was decaying. They managed years before that without it, and it wasn't even called regeneration for ages, yes.)
I had a point...yes, that the New Series, as I se it, seems to be going with theImmorality Immortality thing, and this is, in fact, totally in keeping with Ye Olde Skool continuity, yes.
On another, slightly related note, Romana's regeneration. Dead nice that there was a pretty retcon in The Christmas Invasion for how she was able to change forms and such, yes, but the criticism that generally bugs me about that is that "OMG! Why she kill herself? MADNESS!" which is really a very human attitude. In that, we have got a hundred years if we're terribly lucky so, naturally, we're keen on things that make life longer and such. And fandom tends to assume that Time Lords, with their horrifically long lifespans, would think exactly the same thing, and just, hmm, p'haps not? Cause, yes, alien and also, just because the Doctor tends to use his regenerations when he gets himself killed, doesn't mean everyone does. Romana doesn't, and Borusa is a different bloke every time the Doctor pops back to Gallifrey, and I can't imagine he's been killed every one of those times, so, yes, Other Reasons. And such.
Those are my thoughts. Such as they are.
And when they came up with the (totally arbitary) twelve regenerations, and thus thirteen lives, I bet they never thought they'd actually get that far. And now it's, y'know, kind of almost there, they seem to be quietly forgetting that they ever said anything of the sort (so suggests the Beeb website). New series, in fact, implies that there is no limit to regeneration what with the "I don't die; I regenerate" thing and the "it's a way we have of chaeating death," without any sort of mention of "yeah, but only for so long, then Death gets pissed off and says ENOUGH YOU WEE CHEATERS" and drags them off to Hades, yes.
And, really, that thing on the Beeb site where it says with the Time Lords gone, who knows how many regnerations Time Lord shave does make sense in relation to Old Series continuity. There is no reason ever given as to why it is thirteen lives. No reason why regeneration will only work thirteen times. But there is a reason given as to why a limit would be imposed. "Immortality is a curse, not a blessing" is what Rassilon believes, and what with him being the Grand High Poobah of the Time Lords, he probably decided "right, you lot, you've got 13 goes and then that's it. Byeeeeeee!" And Rassilon himself is immortal, and he does grant a horrible, horrible sort of immortality to those who come and nick his jewellery. So, yeah, immortality totally possible. But they don't allow it.
Further evidence, yes, is Borusa's offer to the Master of "a complete new life-cycle" and the obvious continuity question that it raises of Why Does Borusa Bother With All That Death Zone Nonsense When He Could Just Give Himself A New Lifecycle. And, yes, maybe you could only have one (or other finite limit) new life-cycle/s (Borusa wanted to rule forever), maybe the Time Lords take this limit on their regenerations dead seriously (they are very keen on tradition) in which case, much easier for a renegade to get away with shiny new lives than it is for Lord President o the People, yes. Maybe they could reverse it somehow, the limit imposed by genetics, whereas the apparent gift that Rassilon offered overcame that. Anyway, tons of possible reasons. The points are Immortality Possible and Number of Regenerations Time Lords Have Is Imposed By Society.
So why? What's wrong with immortality? Again, canon gives A Reason, in The Brain of Morbius. Which, here, there's a whole planet of immortal people (coincedently, this planet is in the same solar system as Gallifrey. Also lalala, NA's I can't hear you, LA) and the Doctor, not exactly thrilled with what he finds there. Nothing has changed. Nothing ever changes. They are trapped by their immortality. Now, the Time Lords, not exactly rocketing forth with the shiny newness of things, but, heh, they do have the odd renegade who does Interesting Things and their civilisation does seem to be in a sort of terminal decline, yes. And, there's that whole war thing. Things do change for the Time Lords, just rather slowly, and it is better than the Trapped In Amber Immortality of the Sisterhood of Karn, yes.
So, yes, perhaps the same thing that saved the Doctor from death has killed the thing that imposes that arbitary limit of regenerations. (And, dude, it's totally arbitary - it was made-up for The Deadly Assassin to explain why the Master was decaying. They managed years before that without it, and it wasn't even called regeneration for ages, yes.)
I had a point...yes, that the New Series, as I se it, seems to be going with the
On another, slightly related note, Romana's regeneration. Dead nice that there was a pretty retcon in The Christmas Invasion for how she was able to change forms and such, yes, but the criticism that generally bugs me about that is that "OMG! Why she kill herself? MADNESS!" which is really a very human attitude. In that, we have got a hundred years if we're terribly lucky so, naturally, we're keen on things that make life longer and such. And fandom tends to assume that Time Lords, with their horrifically long lifespans, would think exactly the same thing, and just, hmm, p'haps not? Cause, yes, alien and also, just because the Doctor tends to use his regenerations when he gets himself killed, doesn't mean everyone does. Romana doesn't, and Borusa is a different bloke every time the Doctor pops back to Gallifrey, and I can't imagine he's been killed every one of those times, so, yes, Other Reasons. And such.
Those are my thoughts. Such as they are.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 02:32 pm (UTC)I do think the BBC statement is kinda rubbish, if it a genetically imprinted thing, then why should that suddenly disappear because Gallifrey goes boom?
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 02:36 pm (UTC)::handwave handwave::
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 05:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:10 pm (UTC)And there's not real reason to suppose it is genetically imprinted. It could be anythings, ih my.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 08:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 02:35 pm (UTC)If only. By which I mean sexual immorality, by which I mean porn.
I mostly handwave Romana's regeneration. It was a fashion statement, and who among us cannot sympathize with the desire to get rid of that old face and move to the Spring edition?
Your thoughts about regeneration are, as ever, spicy.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:11 pm (UTC)I usually handwave Romana's thing just cause, yeah, it was just put in for the joking, yes.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 02:37 pm (UTC)You have invoked much nodding from me - although I think they might to mention it, maybe, this whole 'we can do it as many times as we like really, just someone decided we shouldn't and now they aren't here'. But that would involve explaining and Gallifrey and they seem oddly afeared of that word.
And yeah, sweetly, they just never thought it would get this far, and picked 12 because it sounded like loads. Aw.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 03:32 pm (UTC)Of course, this doesn't explain why Jabe would have heard of the Time Lords, does it?
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-23 07:49 am (UTC)Plus I figure that time is all twisted and scarred; maybe your race remembers fighting the Daleks, yet if you go back to that legendary period in a time machine you won't find any Daleks... yet when you jump forward year by year the stories still begin.
So, yes, perhaps the same thing that saved the Doctor from death has killed the thing that imposes that arbitary limit of regenerations.
Ten's emo only really makes sense in that context. He's gone through lives at a rate of about one a century, which means that odds are he won't make it more than 3-500 more years if he only had 13. And he's got access to the whole of the timeline. Cassandra was hundreds of years old, IIRC, and for most of those was in a regular body. If he wanted to, he could just pop them up the timeline to a nice body shop and get them tuned up for a few hundred years themselves. If he's really immortal, this doesn't work so well.
Plus, there's something gloriously creepy about the idea. Constantly dying and being reborn, bound to the wheel. As if his reward and punishment for the genocide was to live long enough to do everything the Timelords once would have done.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:12 pm (UTC)Immortality barring accidents, or, y'know, whacking great wars?
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 02:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 11:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 02:46 pm (UTC)(Thoguh I also giggled at Immorality standing in for Immortality, but it still makes a neat argument).
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:14 pm (UTC)I could totaly blame dodgy typing on being distracted by people demanding attention, yes.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 09:24 pm (UTC)That usually works for me.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 02:50 pm (UTC)As for the Romana thing, well we did get to see the Master not wanting to die, so there is some basis to people thinking that some Time Lords want to hang on to life no matter what and not waste regenerations, but I guess that kicks in when you're on 11 or 12 and seeing the end coming up fast.
I hate to say this, but I do think that with the cost of this series that I can't actually seeing the BBC running it for years and years and needing all those regenerations (except perhaps in books and one-offs). I know it's getting wonderful ratings and all, but still it's such a major investment that the plug would get pulled so much more easily than a lot of other shows.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:15 pm (UTC)Ah, yes Enlightenment! More evidences!
no subject
Date: 2006-05-18 03:48 am (UTC)I'd actually rather plug pulling than the 'here's 50p, go have fun with that' routine they pulled on Seven.
But in a perfect universe the BBC would properly fund it forever and ever. And our descendants would be madly wanking about how Doctor 5000 isn't a patch on Doctor 324. And how Companion X is a total cow and their companion would never be so callous and the Doctor totally loved her only.
Completely and utterly off-topic:
Date: 2006-05-17 03:43 pm (UTC)Re: Completely and utterly off-topic:
Date: 2006-05-17 07:16 pm (UTC)Re: Completely and utterly off-topic:
Date: 2006-05-17 07:44 pm (UTC)Re: Completely and utterly off-topic:
Date: 2006-05-17 07:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 04:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 06:12 pm (UTC)Oh, I wish! Freudian slip?
But very interesting thoughts, from one who knows far more about DW than I (I'm embarrassed to say, as it was integral to the fabric of my childhood).
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 06:52 pm (UTC)I also have sensible/emo thoughts re: Time Lords and their relationship to Doctor and such but they are no fun.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-21 06:04 pm (UTC)Reason for first regeneration: bad haircut
Reason for second regeneration: boredom
Reason for third regeneration: boyfriend likes blondes
Reason for fourth regeneration: diet too time-consuming
etcetera. I wish I had not thought that.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:38 pm (UTC)I don't think the NAs originated that, BTW - I think there's a line in Morbius about how the Sisterhood is related to Gallifreyans some unspecified way. IIRC, they treat the Doctor as sort of a close cousin-species.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 07:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 11:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 08:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 08:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 09:31 pm (UTC)And it's even worse now, not even half a century and he's used ten... maybe he should consider finding a nice safe hideaway for a few centuries once he hits 12 :)
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 09:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 10:30 pm (UTC)It's likely that Romana's regeneration is a good example of the way the average Time Lord would regard the process - it's a matter of choice, and something you do in order to make a change in your life. In the case of the Doctor, as a "renegade", he has to watch himself, and thus only regenerates when he's done something supremely daft, self-sacrificing, or generally fatal. This is possibly why he doesn't have the same degree of control over the process that Romana did, and is more than likely to be the cause of post-regeneration trauma.
The business of being forcibly regenerated (as per the change from 2 to 3) also appears to produce trauma, which leads me to speculate that the removal of "lives" would be some form of punishment for misdemeanours on Gallifrey. Possibly this is where the Master lost some of his?
no subject
Date: 2006-05-18 07:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-19 03:50 pm (UTC)